| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 21 post(s) |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
87
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Posted - 2012.05.11 03:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
NPC's could all be the grossly overpowered Concord vessels if only the AI/behaviour was coded right. Not sure if the actual ships need much changing at all to be honest, eWar could do with a downwards tweak but I am hoping that the eWar revision will make any such change pointless .. you are still planning on revising eWar I take it?
Have them protect that which they were meant to first and foremost .. the complex, aka. timer, instead of everything with the proper standings.
- If a person enters capture range (CR), check standings, if hated -> shoot him down.
- If a person leaves capture range, but has taken no hostile action -> keep him locked but do nothing further.
- If more than one with hated standings are in CR, then use threat list akin to the one used by Incursion Sansha.
- If a person is in plex but not in CR, lock him up -> do nothing further.
- If a person is in plex but not in CR and takes hostile action against guards -> shoot him down but never leave striking distance of timer which is to be protected.
* Basically have them ignore anyone who is not a direct threat to the plex or its personnel.
Add some sentries around the timer to assist with LR targets (especially in Gallente plexes where NPC weapons are worse than BB guns) and to make the solo AB frig capture an impossibility. It is a military installation damnit, surely they have some gun emplacements .. even the smallest of the small pirate installations have some defensive guns in place!
The NPCs are now something to do when no pew is present and they don't interfere with the pew when it is (provided it doesn't happen on the timer  ). |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
126
|
Posted - 2012.05.22 16:49:00 -
[2] - Quote
Problem with using NPCs as a balance tool is that you risk forcing a winning side to field ever more people just to deal with the 'distractions' which will cut into the pew side of things .. will be even more true if they ever get around to balancing the NPCs themselves ... I say "if" because 'lol' CCP SoundFail is in charge so chances are the navy rats start dropping navy bpcs and get bounties attached "because then people will want to shoot them and they are no longer an obstacle to pew!!!1111"
As for joining a losing side .. LP will be easy as hell to acquire just from plexing (semi-AFK activity for the most part) .. so easy in fact that even if you have the atrocious x1/4 modifier you will probably still be able to make a tidy profit.
Whole thing depends on whether or not the "winners" aggressively pursue and have nigh constant numerical superiority . |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
169
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Posted - 2012.06.01 04:40:00 -
[3] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:... its implied especially since it was a Dev that opened the thread.
So all (as in OMG Dev SPAM!) the Dev threads from F&I (or was it TSF) that were opened just prior to the forum change and never re-created are still being consulted/read?
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
182
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 04:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Let's be honest, the EWAR isn't doing its job to prevent that anyways. At least this way no one will hesitate to go in after them, other than the fact that they could just warp off if they don't want to PvP anyways.
The only sure-fire way to force the ship up is to require the killing of NPC's. While I certainly agree this would reduce farming, I'm hestitant to require more NPC-shooting grinds in what is still a PvP system to me. I think that a lot of us would still prefer to let some speed tankers get away, than to be forced into NPC shooting. But its worthy of further discussion.
The only "real" long term solution would be something similar to what I posted early on in this thread (P.1 I believe) .. AI coding.
eWar removal will not really do much other than speed up system flips as everyone and their mother will be able to solo cap everythin; gangs are already killing rats and solo plexers generally run regardless .. should help a bit with the occasional fight that happens on/near timer before rats are killed off but not that common to begin with so 'meh'.
By the by, requiring destruction of NPCs (aka. PvE grind) is more than OK now that people are paid massive amounts of LP for their time .. on top of tags/loot gained from said destruction. Once we start doing what null has been doing for years, asking for something for nothing, then we will well and truly be lost .. FW will decompose (already dead, being flogged) and the sky fall.
PS: Looking forward to seeing the difference in plexing speed Amarr will be able to pull off when they get the same ability as the Mimes has had since day 1 (solo frig capping).
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
182
|
Posted - 2012.06.12 16:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:We're talking short term vs long term here, I think its best to try to reach a consensus on whether ewar removal *alone* does more harm than good, like I said its a band-aid and doesnt have to be implemented in the meantime, but its on the test server and worth discussing sooner than later.
No, the eWar band-aid is sorely needed .. your mission, should you choose to accept it .. is to make sure CCP starts planning/scheming the "real" fix ASAP so they can not only make it fit in with FW (non-FarmVilleGäó version) but also use it to foster a proper PvP environment .. will require a lot of thought I think, not to mention a potentially heavy workload dependent on solution chosen.
Ideally we'd have the anti-farm band-aid in the form of "Kill Everything!" in conjunction with the eWar band-aid, but that is two FW items in between expansions which is probably one more than is allowed by CCP corporate policy, labour laws or some such  |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
203
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 09:31:00 -
[6] - Quote
Thaddeus Rees wrote:.....
And that is the wet dream for all of us .. to have a PvP centric mechanic in plexes. Problem is that FW has more alts per capita than even the most alt heavy null alliances, so designing such a system is nigh impossible.
The pragmatic/rational approach is to accept that some measure of PvE is part of plexing and making sure that it is moved to the background when/if PvP occurs .. all the while brainstorming for a way to make the wet dream come true.
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
206
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 04:10:00 -
[7] - Quote
The static EHP grind should only be offered as a solution when all other possibilities have been exhausted .. it is mind-numbingly dull, has been since CCP introduced it with null sovereignty and the associated towers .. still is with iHubs and SBUs.
Drama/Backstabbery/More interesting option:
Replace bunker-bust with a NPC taskforce consisting of a couple of RR carriers, a supercarrier and an assortment of sub-capital ships .. EHP of S.Carrier roughly 2/3rds current bunker/iHub.
S.Carrier drops an encryption control module that has to be plugged into the iHub to flip system. While Navy is useless in a fight, they do have the bureaucracy down pat so validity of encryption protocol expires after four to six hours .. were an enemy (or ally  ) to ninja-loot said module to prevent it from being installed into iHub, HQ sends another taskforce with a 'fresh' control module after the allotted time.
NB: Control Module ALWAYS drops, only way to destroy it is to jettison and nuke can or trash in station, so get that ninja! |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
206
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 04:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
Har Harrison wrote:If that is what is required. The point is that the event should be significant and give both sides a decent outcome.
If the defender wins, and then has to repeat the same exercise again 10 minute later as the system went back to 99.999999% contested and someone completes a minor, the event is somewhat pointless. The defender needs a significant reward for winning the engagement and good fights in and of itself is not enough.
One could combine it with the previously (and elsewhere) mentioned idea of having "Background NPC Battles" for flavour.
When system defences drop (Vulnerable), attackers HQ send a taskforce which is met by its equal from defenders HQ .. they'll go at it forever with neither side being able to break the other (ie. backdrop) .. militia's then get to duke it out for the right to nuke the opposing taskforce.
If attacker wins, grinds the dynamic EHP, gets the drop and inserts it in iHub = LP reward and system flip.
If defender wins grinds the dynamic EHP, gets the drop and inserts it in iHub = System contested status reset to 50%.
NB: This is on top of securing plexes. If system is taken down to say 95% by defender then the taskforce suddenly starts doing damage and wipes the attacking taskfoce (no module drop in that case) and goes home.
PS: I will entertain the most outrageous ideas and concepts if it means I don't have to shoot a damn brink in space ever again, hate that mechanic like the plague. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
218
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 04:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Pretty sure the main reason for the Mimes losing Tier 4 so fast is that they no longer get the LP dumps from the LP-for-Kills exploit perpetrated by certain individuals with null affiliations
Mr. Har, just how much of a difference has the removal of TP's made .. how "low" can one go shipwise for offensive plexes?
Can't wait to see/hear what the plan is to sort the mess that is the system upgrades/WZC mechanics to make FW more than ninja'ing as many offensive plexes as possible with no incentive to defend whatsoever .. but is sister thread so .. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
219
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 21:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
eWar removal was never about speed/tracking tankers, but rather the occasional pew where it ended up as a turd in one sides soup .. speed/tracking tankers can only be removed by "Kill Everything!" or redesigning/-coding plexes entirely.
As for topic: Brain left on idle came up with the idea of merging the two current threads or at least their premises. Remove WZC and make it constellation based, the higher the level of "control" the higher the level of "insurgency" .. ie. upgrade all systems in constellation to gain benefit at the cost of making the life for an attacker 'easier'.
One could upgrade a backwater constellation necessitating extra travel to avail of said upgrades or one could do it closer to home (where the baddies prowl) and have to actively defend not one one but several systems for bonuses to remain intact.
Pros: More pew. One up for the underdog.
Cons: My brain does not deal with such trivial things so not applicable.
Basically ripping yet another bit of the working mechanics from Incursions .. constellation conflict/incentives rather than system conflict/entire zone benefit. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
219
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 16:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:I just threw up inside my mouth a little, time to go brush my teeth.....
Bathroom's taken!
Better not give it to Ytter without being absolutely sure he knows what's what. Chances are he'll think you are advocating further nerfs to the Dram when it is merely a high profile instance of the hundreds of Vigils, Rifters, Condors et al. that make up the real issue .. that of farming/speed tanking.
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
266
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 16:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
Two birds (they can be Booby's if you want) with one stone:
Make the individual system and/or constellation worth protecting by using both carrot and stick.
Possible carrots (make it constellation based so that if a single system is lost the whole she-bang is in turmoil.
- Free repairs.
- Enemy denied docking.
- Awesome rat spawns/Exploration spawns.
- Super charged industry.
- Plexes taking longer to complete for enemy depending on upgrade level.
- Etc.
Possible sticks:
- Plexes taking less and less time for enemy to capture the deeper into contested a system drops. Wait too long and you'll never save it.
- Enemy can dock!!!!! Oh Noes!!!!
- Services start closing up shop as the enemy nears (contested status). NB: Hurts both sides until matter is settled (ie. Da Flip) .... would personally love to see this in a system like Amamake
- Repairs becoming more and more expensive as the enemy nears (Fitting/Repair are the only services never to close, assumed to be part of the dock/hangar area).
- Etc.
That is the non-escalating-LP-faucet way of solving both the incentive to D.Plex and the willingness to engage hostile plexers.
Will require the entire system be redone from scratch though, so I bet we'll see the faucet opened wide for defensive work as well thus making the last 40-50 people (not counting the temporary alliances only there to farm) actually interested in PvP leave in disgust as so many before them.
But if rumour-mill is correct, then Winter will be the last "major" FW iteration for the time being so guess the cheap and dirty way is to just give LP for everything; consequences, fun and gameplay be damned  |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
266
|
Posted - 2012.08.22 20:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Nice upgrade ideas , though now we're getting a bit off topic and there's a whole nother thread for that stuff. Doesnt *really* matter though, CCP and I are monitoring both.
A bit off topic is putting it mildly, just wanted to try to show you and Cearain that there are options beyond straight up incentives for defensive plexing .. you two seem to be looping the loop with no end in sight.
Addressed the thread topic when it first opened ago and thread itself, as has the sister thread, has morphed into "larger scope" concepts as is proper if you ask me as FW's strength is that everything is interconnected (or should be at any rate) so that there is a place for everyone to do their thing.
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
272
|
Posted - 2012.08.28 17:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
Yeah, the straight de-aggress is one of those things that look awesome on paper but is destined to be 'meh', worse still it does not really solve anything as the majority of plexers will still run 90% of the time so you end up wasting resources coding something that has a fringe effect at best.
Quoting myself from page one as I do not think it can be done 'properly' without an AI overhaul.
Veshta Yoshida wrote:NPC's could all be the grossly overpowered Concord vessels if only the AI/behaviour was coded right. Not sure if the actual ships need much changing at all to be honest, eWar could do with a downwards tweak but I am hoping that the eWar revision will make any such change pointless .. you are still planning on revising eWar I take it? Have them protect that which they were meant to first and foremost .. the complex, aka. timer, instead of everything with the proper standings. - If a person enters capture range (CR), check standings, if hated -> shoot him down. - If a person leaves capture range, but has taken no hostile action -> keep him locked but do nothing further. - If more than one with hated standings are in CR, then use threat list akin to the one used by Incursion Sansha. - If a person is in plex but not in CR, lock him up -> do nothing further. - If a person is in plex but not in CR and takes hostile action against guards -> shoot him down but never leave striking distance of timer which is to be protected. * Basically have them ignore anyone who is not a direct threat to the plex or its personnel. Add some sentries around the timer to assist with LR targets (especially in Gallente plexes where NPC weapons are worse than BB guns) and to make the solo AB frig capture an impossibility. It is a military installation damnit, surely they have some gun emplacements .. even the smallest of the small pirate installations have some defensive guns in place! The NPCs are now something to do when no pew is present and they don't interfere with the pew when it is (provided it doesn't happen on the timer ).
Now, I understand that CCP are loathe to mess around with AI and NPC power as the rats are shared with missions both in and out of FW.
I also understand that CCP has said they would like worm AI to be implemented everywhere but that the server performance is an issue, yet they created Incursions with that exact (or close enough) AI system and by my reckoning Incursions are probably spawning as many if not more NPCs/plexes as FW.
Long-term fix: Create an entirely new subset of rats specifically for FW, with worm/Incursion AI.
Short-term fix: Something like in the quote above, should be possible to add some AI behaviour without breaking rats elsewhere as long as it is tied to FW specific mechanics (ie. timer, timer-range sphere). Or something as simple as destructible sentries balanced to suit the three size plexes to make the use of "inappropriate" ships (read: gunless frigs/speed tankers) impossible.
Either way, not sure is is prudent to look at the NPC's as a stand-alone thing as part of a solution could for example be the timer that counts backwards automatically when hostile leaves .. the beauty of FW is the interconnectedness of all things, use/abuse that when cooking ideas.
PS: How about adding LP-for-Kills x2 (or more) to value of a given plex when it is capped as a little extra incentive to kill each other inside.
PPS: No matter what, the farm has to be addressed as a first priority if any headway towards the pew/tug-o-war of old is to be made. The idea that each side takes turns steam-rolling the other to get to the ATM is just stupid and makes for really crappy reading (mostly been whoring it up lately ) .. I can empathize with the people complaining about FW spamming WarTac these days as most threads are devoid of content, was better pre-patch when we smacked about actual engagements rather than "today we farmed ourselves back to tier 4-5!!!!11111". |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
275
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 14:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
Come'on Ytterbium, press the "Post" button already. Ignore the other thread, Fozz got that covered!!!!
Come ON!!!!! |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
275
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 16:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:.... Be patient, give the devs a lttle time here, I think you'll like what you see. 
Calling for patience from the FW crowd .. might as well try to tell the sun not to come up
Ty Delaney wrote:One: FW is a great new-player pvp option in the game...
This was the reason for the plex restrictions and it held true for about a year or so, now however a 'newbie' is effectively thrown to the wolves as he'll have to contend with faction hulls, omni-present boosters and Goddess knows what else all the while being considered a dirty SPAI!
'Newbies' are actually a lot better off in RvB or even as expendable tackle in null .. just sayin'
Ty Delaney wrote:Two: Faction warfare needs less mandatory PvE, not more....
True .. but .. separating the two without adopting a 100% player driven occupancy mechanic like in null is impossible, so the question is how much is too much and what other options are there to solve the problems with the farming frigs.
You'll end up doing more damage to FW were a solution adopted that forced PvP than you'd do by forcing PvE due to the fact that PvP is not and can never be balanced, not by a long-shot (impossible without crippling the game).
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Are we there yet?
Was actually looking for a YouTube clip with that line as a response to Hans' call for patience, but couldn't find one annoying enough
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
275
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 17:36:00 -
[17] - Quote
Me again o/
Capture beacon location:
Bad idea. Assaulting a plex occupied by an enemy is insanely hard as is, this will effectively put all 'defenders' on the warp-in where they get 2-3s worth of "free" dps due to grid load and such. It needs to be 20km+ for it to have a positive impact on PvP, the farmer will be unaffected as he will warp when you land on gate instead of when you land inside so they'll still be buzzing around.
End result will be an amplification of current trend when assaulting, overwhelm with stupidly high numbers = no fight.
Unify capture range:
30km is too much and will kill fights in minors entirely. Combined with the above you have zero hope of evicting say an Arty Thrasher swarm (which are probably still the most common spam ship).
If it must be uniform then 20km is much better, especially when combined with 20km beacon location.
Increase contested range:
Goddess no .. or rather not without additional tweaks, particularly to grid size. Might just be twitches left over from the old Dramiel's Benny'ing all over the place but this will not promote fights as the guy on the button will not chase a silly bugger all over creation just to get the seconds ticking when he can just as easily go to another plex.
Complex size and name changes:
Good. Allow rookie ships in all sizes and you are set.
FW COMPLEX NPC CHANGESHoly crap! Thought it a long-shot when I and others suggested creating a FW specific sub-set .. pure :AWESOMESAUCE:
* NPCs contest capture timer:
MOAR SAUCE!
* NPC number reduction:
With tanks and better AI, numbers wont matter much so good on you.
* NPCs only spawn when no PvP is happening:
Be careful with how this is implemented, I foresee alts in opposing militia being used to turn off spawns .. quadruple check the code before launching it.
Also, if they are not to have eWar then why did you use it above as justification for reducing numbers .. hmmmmmmm
* NPC standing aggression revamp:
And there you have it folks, "Blurry" in Iceland is the same broken, borked, unwieldy etc. in the rest of the world!
Good call. You are working on aggression mechanics at any rate so better have a strong back-bone that can be used elsewhere than try adding some ham-fisted "attack everything" line to FW rats.
Just do us a favour, declare the obvious abuses a No-No until the system is in place and give those GM types something to do while swilling what is likely atrocious coffee (office coffee = *yuck*). |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
275
|
Posted - 2012.08.31 17:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
Kuehnelt wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:Capture beacon location:
Bad idea. Assaulting a plex occupied by an enemy is insanely hard as is, this will effectively put all 'defenders' on the warp-in where they get 2-3s worth of "free" dps due to grid load and such. There's at least 2-3 seconds of an invulnerability timer after you land, isn't there? It's something that rarely matters, but I was in a fleet once where we were instructed to wait on moving or activating any module so as to not break this invulnerability.
Then it has been added after I quit the plexing game some two years ago, cannot count the number of times I have saved a pod after ship popped without the ability to move much less fight.
But raises a tasty idea: Five second gate cloak when coming through plex gate. Double (or triple) width of 'spawn sphere'. ie make it a 5-7.5km radius rather than 2.5km and you'll suddenly have a fighting chance against even numbers who are entrenched inside plex.
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
276
|
Posted - 2012.09.01 15:00:00 -
[19] - Quote
No, perfect would be to drop the folly of the easy LP that comes from defensive plexing and introduce the automatic timer instead plus meaningful upgrades (ie. ones that will encourage people to spend the hours orbiting).
But the Farmers Union is too strong now after six months of infini-LP so guess we'll (read: I'll) have to settle for even more LP being thrown after the gunless stabbed frigs of the alt armies.  |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
283
|
Posted - 2012.09.11 16:45:00 -
[20] - Quote
Garr Earthbender wrote:https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1907821#post1907821CCP Fozzie wrote:Garr Earthbender wrote:With cruisers not sucking any more, logi cruisers and the like, is it possible that the new FW complex layout (rookie, minor, medium, large) that the idea to have a medium hold all T2 cruisers and below had this rebalance in mind? Yup Ship rebalancing dev blog + plex reassignment gave me a slight *ding* moment. Well, more like a 3 watt bulb getting a power surge to 5 watt. Seems I was right on track.
And when T2 cruisers are revised to match some of the changes made to T1 .. then what? |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
316
|
Posted - 2012.10.08 08:16:00 -
[21] - Quote
Pirate ships in plexes are a non issue when/if navy hulls are readily available at 1/5th the costs .. hell, if they do the balance pass properly the mere fact that all T1 are being tiericided will make pirate hulls a luxury rather than an iWin button .. T1 hulls are shaping up to be quite powerful and I fully expect the gap between them and T2/pirate to be minuscule by the time the dust settles (ie. after T2/pirate are revised).
Eve PvP has always been about paying through the nose to get those few extra percentages that guarantees a win, CCP are now in a position to make that reality for hulls as well as modules.
Bienator II wrote:its still abuseable. people would just accept those with a fleet of pods and finish them in an neutral tengu or faction caracal.
Except completing a mission with a non-FW character was declared an exploit ages ago .. would have to be enforced though which is where the issue lies
Milton Middleson wrote:....
Missions only to enemy held space (or even more evil, to border systems only!) and all missions to include a poison pill .. solves any issues related to missions. PvP'ers can and will fight for them with the non-confrontational's being shown the door in short order (if standings remain).
No need to create mini-arcs and what not, just increase the risks to be proportionate with the rewards involved, CCP can wield their rotten carrot as long as we get to swing the stick around .. as it was meant to be!
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
319
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Posted - 2012.10.15 18:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:First off ...
You are "new" to FW (relatively ) so I'll go easy on you ... hehehehe.
The clamouring for easy LP/ISK was not a thing until the last year prior to changes, personally think it was a combination of Incursion system becoming saturated and panic caused by CCP's tweaking of Sanctums.
The three years preceding the establishment of the farm lobby, what we asked/begged for was consequence and balance (biggest annoyance/broken bit: DT shuffle). Missions were so damn easy and lucrative that only the tunnel vision impaired who flat out refuse to do anything resembling PvE wanted an alternative .. they got something even more lucrative while doubling up on the PvE aspect .. orbiting a timer.
Still waiting for updates as to what is planned now after a few months worth of feedback. Initial offering merely cause current bloats to take up defensive farming with no practical way for any change to landscape (barring the infusion of umpteen hundred active pilots as is the case now) .. quite frankly need to know if it worth hanging around for.
Memory Lane:
- Back in the day we'd plex a system about halfway, at which point it flared on the map resulting in buckets of blood/tears as enemy scrambled to defend (or proselytize in local ) ..... now you can't even see the region names and you risk burning a hole in your monitor if you are foolish enough to toggle FW state on the map.
- Back in the day we'd regularly punch each other silly in all manner of ships as no one outside FW had any interest in it ..... now (when we left pre-inferno) you get some BC action, anything bigger is dropped on as outside interests brought their bat-phones with them (how many Titans are in play in FW today by the way?).
- Back in the day an aggressive PvP lifestyle was possible with an hour or two per week missioning to sustain it as "our" stuff had value on the market ..... now half the people in FW cannot make ends meet as high-sec can put "our" stuff on market for less so they spend all day orbiting buttons/running missions, accumulating LP in anticipation of the tri-annual monster-flip event that will hopefully keep them afloat until the next event.
Been back for a week or so now and have yet to see anything but ab frigs buzzing around from plex to plex like some damn pollinating bees. Perhaps it is because I haven't been travelling the Huola-Auga pipe as that seems to (still) be the only place one can get a shower (blood, golden, tears .. take your pick).
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Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
329
|
Posted - 2012.10.22 19:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
No major changes made to the stuff coming tomorrow so wouldn't expect them to not go with the three size system, meaning they will be allowed in mediums = ISK backbone wins every fight. Good times |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
334
|
Posted - 2012.10.24 10:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
Jhaelee de'Auvrie wrote:For the most part, this most recent modification to the FW plex system has been great. Gone are the ab-frigate LP farmers because of the need to now combat the NPCs. Here in though is a potential problem that I came across.
The staggered spawn time and fact that the timer pauses every time a spawn appears means a 50%-100% extension on the time it takes to close each plex. Soloing minor plexes taking 15 minutes is one thing, but trying to solo a Major-Unrestricted is easily an hour long ordeal.
If this is intented, then it changes the time/reward balance of the plexes heavily. TodayGÇÖs plex patrols saw quick jumping on minor plexes, but majors of all of the types completely being ignored.
Would love it if majors were kept as the ones requiring a gang, soloing them always stroked me the wrong way. My worry is that the NCs coming in December will be too anaemic and can be dropped by any sufficiently large amount of dps, I sort of expect the new Thorax in shield config will be the standard when it comes to future plexing.
But .. might be an idea to look at timers and perhaps reduce them by a bit to account for them not running with a rat present. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
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346
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Posted - 2012.10.30 09:56:00 -
[25] - Quote
So you are in a frigate defending a major outpost (designed for BCs!) in a 'base' (read: reships abundant) system and complain that risk/reward is off-kilter?
Profit ought to be contingent on peoples ability not to die .. you died and lost more than you gained .. how is that wrong?
Rank should have meaning, but since everyone are maxed within a month it would become meaningless in a heartbeat. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
348
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Posted - 2012.10.30 17:45:00 -
[26] - Quote
Understood your post perfectly, you insist on competing in a Pro Tour race (ex. Tour de France) riding a tri-cycle and expect management to change the rules to accommodate your choice of transportation.
Income options have increased since patch as defensive work now pays for the time spent, it is not the systems fault that you think you should be able to make a profit in what is a PvP activity (plexing) without actually participating in said activity.
Get a crew together, blow the people standing in your way to smithereens and spread out to available plexes .. unite crew again if enemy has the audacity to reship and come back for more.
If you want to make a profit without all the evil, evil risk then do FW missions. Still solo'able in a bomber (if against Amarr) with no changes until December at the earliest.
In short: FW should be about the pew. Nothing more and nothing less. If one can't hack it in the Blood Bowl then one needs to look elsewhere .. it is a WARZONE, either learn how to kill or survive .. if neither is applicable to your situation then you are in the wrong place to begin with.
PS: Defensive LP is an abomination and should be removed ASAP. Acquiring, fighting for and holding a system should be the only reward in itself (read: meaningful upgrade paths).
PPS: Post for the devs .. on a public forum .. perhaps an email and/or petition would be a better option to get shot down by someone with "proper" credentials. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
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362
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Posted - 2012.11.03 19:32:00 -
[27] - Quote
Dan Carter Murray wrote:...would be a nice surprise for:...
Heh.
On an unrelated note. Now that NPC destruction is a requirement for plexing, one of three things needs to happen to prevent an outcry (already building in case you were wondering):
1. Bring spawns closer to button. Currently long range ships are superior as they save several minutes per plex in travel time, but long range ships are severely restricted in the primarily close range fighting that FW is comprised which leads to faggotry and PvE fits.
2. Timers should be reduced across the board to compensate for the upto 50% increase a plexer experiences when killing spawns. Not much required, 10-20% reduction should be enough.
3. Timers should be changed to keep counting but not being able to complete with rats on grid. Serves same purpose in that destruction is mandatory but avoids most of the issues described above as rats close on button/orbiter and last spawn generally comes in a few minutes prior to completion. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
364
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Posted - 2012.11.04 16:38:00 -
[28] - Quote
Rengerel en Distel wrote:Luckily they're changing it from spawns to spawn in a month, eh? If you have to kill 1 rat each wave, it's hardly going to add 50% to the timer.
True, 50% won't be valid come december, but if spawns still start off 20-30km (that's in minors!) from button the travel time alone will add the mentioned 10-20%.
Personally most partial to the last solution listed as it solves all related issues I can think of without sacrificing the desired outcome, ie. PvP fits capable, farmers hindered.
Will naturally depend on the stats of the new rats, they'll need enough EHP to be obstacles without being massive time-sinks/hindrances and have just enough applied dps to encourage getting rid of them pronto but not enough to be a credible threat if an actual enemy comes around. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
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387
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Posted - 2012.11.20 09:16:00 -
[29] - Quote
Alticus C Bear wrote:They are the same from a mechanics point of view, it's just that the rats make things different for either faction, the only way I can think of doing this would be to have two buttons one for either faction, linked with one timer but one closer to the warp in for the defender.
You are not thinking hard or long enough
- Defender spends 10s on timer after which it begins to count down on its own even if defender leaves vicinity/plex/system.
- When a timer has been set to auto-run, initial spawn withdraws as "poddies got our backs!" and future spawns are halved (read: double spawn cycle).
- When an attacker enters capture range, timer immediately resets if on auto-run, but spawn cycle remains 'gimped'.
- Half of LP-for-Kills (LfK) within a plex earned by a defender counts towards system VP pool and LfK is doubled on grid.
- Defensive plexes yield no LP on their own (more than covered by 2x LfK).
= Defensive work suddenly requires actual defence as the gunless frig running from all enemies will effectively hand plexes to the enemy.
= Defensive LP farms are eliminated.
= Aggressive/effective pew defence can make more LP than current "run-away!" stratagem.
= Defender acquires ability to defend system even though plexes themselves are lost provided they kill enough of enemy to counter VP gained by plexes, essentially trading ISK/stockpiles (and killboard epeen) for system VP.
= Attacker has to be on the ball in any/all systems being targeted lest defender use auto-run to seize plexes. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
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388
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Posted - 2012.11.20 22:44:00 -
[30] - Quote
Sheynan wrote:But...alts.
What stops me or my corp from using an alt in the enemy militia to gimp all the plexes before we take them ?
Nothing, but one must assume defenders will come after you at some point which may happen fast or slow depending on whether we get some kind of reporting tool.
Besides #1; It is impossible to design mechanics in Eve that do not favour alts in some way, the best one can do it is mitigate the effectiveness of such use.
Besides #2; Defender already had an enormous strategic advantage from having the system in the first place that I have no qualms with forcing him to undock (he can dock, you can't, remember?) once in a while to check on things. |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
388
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Posted - 2012.11.21 13:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
So combined with frigate revision, FW will be nothing but?
CCP obviously need to tweak some more if all sizes can be done in a single hull as the whole point of the NPC/Plex revamp is to avoid that very scenario .. doesn't much matter if the frig is gunless as now/before or if its a generic pew fit, they should have a hard time in mediums and an impossible time in majors .. we need it to require appropriate ships and or gang operations dammit!
What options are there to avoid the solo frig scenario:
- Neuts on cruisers, BCs, BS?
- Webs on cruisers, BCs, BS?
- Tackling frigs added to pool (kill first and exploit tracking I guess, so bad option)?
- Destructible sentry guns? |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
388
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Posted - 2012.11.21 16:56:00 -
[32] - Quote
Cearain wrote:All this talk the "npcs are too strong" the "npcs are too weak." Its a waste of time....
A year ago I would have yielded that argument to you, but now that CCP has thrown LP into the mix the NPCs are no longer optional so we have to include them in all future deliberations.
Feedback system would go a long way towards allowing pew as the principal defence which should come around Soon-üGäó, which leaves NPCs as a way for CCP to suggest/dictate how and in what plexes ought to be run.
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